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Max Read's avatar

This is a good response to a particular, albeit esoteric version of libertarianism. You do neglect a large number (I would argue the strong majority) of libertarians who are consequentialists, such as Milton Friedman, James Buchannan, and Jagdish Bhagwati. You're right to start your story with Nozick, but wrong to end it there.

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Adam's avatar

deleted and reposted

(1)

"mostly women, in forced marriages. Roughly a quarter of these slave are children. This slavery takes place in many forms; one form common in wealthier nations like the US is the exploitation of migrant workers." OK, this assertion on its own, I can accept for now… but wait a second, just before that you said "more than at any other time in human history"

But today's migrant workers (at least in the US, idk about Qatar) aren't subject to the same degree of total control and *literal* (i.e. actual, not metaphorical) institutional violence as black slaves pre-Civil War. If you change the definition of what constitutes slavery, then to be consistent you must at least attempt to estimate how many people in the past met your new definition of slavery: I highly suspect it's a lot more than whatever figures you got for historical slavery, which used old, more literal definitions of slavery.

(2)

Nice rhetoric on Elon Musk being the one ‘oppressed’ by taxes. That is striking and clearly something’s wrong!

At the same time your hypothetical feels like a strawman, not a steel man.

The problem with children mining cobalt is a more general problem with “sweatshop labor”, which is easy to decry but from an armchair it's easy to forget that things are inherently bad.

When you say “Of course no, nobody is pro-starvation”, I think actually you are wrong. I think that unless you propose a better solution, you *are* implicitly pro-starvation, and furthermore I think that’s a very important point.

Someone ‘in the arena’, making some difference, is just not morally comparable to someone on the sidelines.

And please don’t say ‘drawing attention’ is good enough; it rings hollow, because plenty of people have already drawn attention to ‘sweatshop labor’; that’s how it got its moniker. Yet what good have they done beyond that?

I think there’s a general problem where if somebody gets involved - ‘entangled’ - with some inherently messy problem in the real world, they are then seen as culpable for it, even if all they did was make it better. I think this is a point that is largely overlooked and it’s a point expounded beautifully here: https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethics/

(3)

I found it a bit offputting to read “while my co-contributor might not feel like reading books written by people he disagrees with”, because I subscribed specifically because I believe your co-contributor is a careful thinker and a great writer. I, too, choose not to read a vast array of books I “disagree with”, such as books on ancient aliens. Maybe your post could've used further revisions before publication.

I enjoyed many aspects such as the effective rhetoric suggesting the absurdity of thinking Elon Musk oppressed while not his poorest workers.

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